My goals for my racing cockpit were as follows:

1) Arcade-ish looks from the outside.

2) Real car feeling inside without being fully enclosed.

3) As immersive as possible without motion (pet and kid safe)

4) Properly placed good sounding 5.1 audio.

5) Triple Monitor Display.

6) Place to keep keyboard - mouse - drinks - other.

Heres some videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sJQKGLblho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HWe8u6pwvw


Here is a pic:

Last edited by wtf im nameless, Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:51. Reason : Adding Video

No comment

Quote from Jakg :

Wahey It Works!

with YUV12? or with RGB? I'd like to run it with YUV12 to get a higher framerate, but it won't work on my system. Let me know what config you are able to get working if it's any different than mine.

Thanks.

hey dude, I think you're having the same issue I had when I first got SoftTH going on Vista... I have not been able to get it to work properly unless you force the resolution...

Try changing to this:

deviceIDLeft=auto
deviceIDright=auto
secondaryWidth=auto
secondaryHeight=auto
secondaryRefresh=auto
secondaryFormat=RGB32
antialiasing=0
anisotropic=0
borderSize=0
sideExtraWidth=0
noHotkeys=0

cylindicalCorretionAngle=0
hideNondefaultDevices=0
forceHorizontalFOV=0
forceResolutionWidth=4240
forceResolutionHeight=1050
force16bitDepth=0
sleepBeforeRead=2
useMultihead=1
delayedPresent=0
swapOrder=0
autoSquash=0
d3d8dll=auto

That should get it up and running in Vista. Myself I was unable to get borders or YUV12 working, I needed RGB32 and I needed to force the resolution.. Everyone that I talked to that's running borders and using the "SecondaryWidth" and all that other stuff is running on XP, not Vista. Everytime I did what you're trying to do I was getting one of two problems. SoftTH logo's on the two side monitors and the resolution not showing up properly, or when I was able to get it to work it would just crash the video card driver over and over again literally until I rebooted.

I'm at work right now, i'll post my working SoftTH config for you once I get home if you're still not up and running.

Good luck.

Quote from BartS :

Help! A nameless player kept clicking on buttons and now we have 20 AI drivers in the game. Need to get rid of all of them but can't find any delete buttons.

For the record, it was not me.

Quote from Juls :

Did you notice that this thread has nothing to do with screen size, projectors, and multiple monitors.
In fact it has something to do with it but this is not the main point.

It is about distorsion caused by linear perspective used in 3D libraries like OpenGL and DirectX, and a rather simple trick to correct most of this distorsion.

In 3D games, if you consider an object just in front of you and translate it to the right, it will remain the same size....even if it goes 5 kilometers to the right (assuming you can still see it with 180 degrees FOV). Because only front/rear distance to the object is considered, not lateral distance.

IRL, the same object will look smaller and smaller as it moves to the right. As it should be.

Even if you take three viewports and stitch them together for a three projectors surround setup, you have to do something with that stupid distorsion to have smooth transitions between the three viewports. Of course it is less visible than with a single large viewport, but the three pictures do not match (lines are broken). No way to escape, something has to be done about it, in post or pre-processing, whatever you have: single projector with large FOV,multiple projectors, multiple viewports...etc.

I'm trying to understand what distortion you are talking about. When I play Forza2 or rFactor using the multiview mode I do not notice any distortion at all... if a car passes me it can go from the side monitors to the front monitors and it looks amazing. Forza 2 has the best mutli monitor support I have ever used and when configured properly I can honestly say it looks like a million bucks.

When you say "the lines are broken" and "three pictures do not match" I do not understand. In Forza 2 all lines and angles are 100% perfect when properly configured. The lines on the road are exact and flow 100% perfectly on to the side screens. The size of the lines are the same, the angles are exactly as they should be and the end effect is amazing. All lines including the horizon, the road, all barriers match up 100% for both sizes and angles.

Quote from JTbo :

Only really well working solution is to cover more area of what you see with display, this is why projector setups own 3 monitor setups 100-0.

I disagree. I think a 3 projector setup would own.. but I would rather have side vision that gives me a sense of speed rather than a giant screen infront of me.

I tried moving my cockpit infront of my 71 inch TV and my personal preference was sticking with the triple 22's. I just cannot justify spending that much on three projectors for a game that does not properly support multi view...

Keep in mind a lot of people using over head projectors are running screens too big for the game to be realistic.. In a perfect world the screen should be the right size so other cars are real world size, not too big, not too small... I think that size would be somewhere around triple around triple 80-90ish inch screens.

I'm running triple screen SoftTH myself.. If your running XP from what I've heard (have not tried this myself) you can install two sets of graphics card drivers and it will work with SoftTH.

On Vista you cannot install two different types of graphics drivers.. They both have to use the same driver. I had the same issue as I had an old ATI PCI-E card laying around that I was not using.. it did not work at all.

Quote from Jakg :

Just ftr I really doubt anyone gets a constant 60 FPS - with my PC (link in my sig) at 2.8 GHz I still get 40 FPS at the back of a full grid at 8xAA (although it's CPU limited).

Of course the second that the field spreads out even remotely it'll bounce of vSync all day long, but at the start it wont - I think this is where a LOT of confusion comes in as they think that racing around on their own = "constant FPS"

You sir are correct. I have never played a 20 car race starting from dead last place before. I just tried it right now on the city map and it was around on average 30FPS with all 19 AI cars in front of me. When there are less cars around it sticks at 60 though.

Is it the AI that drags the FPS down? I have not played a 20 player race online starting from dead last either... I wonder if the FPS would be higher with the CPU not driving all those other cars??

Quote from supersokk :

I've heard some rumors from friends / websites that the 9800gx2 doesn't give that mutch " power " compared too that stiff prize. I'd love too have one of those but but some say that i should wait for the 9800GT/GTX/GTS cards come out. Lower prize but still kicks ass. Am i right or wrong?

The 9800GTX is already out and it's an amazing card for the price... it's only about 8%ish better on average than an 8800GTX but even though it just came out the retail price is roughly half of what the 8800GTX was this time last year.

Quote from Gekkibi :

Wrong. IIRC, it was 24.

That is so far from wrong it's not even funny. There is no exact number as different people can see different numbers of FPS depending on numerous different things. 24FPS drives me up the wall, I find it super choppy myself.

Most people play on LCD monitors (thats another debate all together Shotglass) which are 60HZ, there for anything over 60FPS is irrelevant. Upper end LCD TV's are now using 120HZ technology, the first generation of these LCD panels will not accept an input of anything over 60HZ. The upconverting from 60-120 is done within the LCD itself.. Although this still looks a lot smoother for gaming I would bet that either next year or the following year the monitors will actually have a 1920 by 1080 @ 120HZ input. When that happens you will be able to get real 120FPS which for 99%+ of the people in the world will be more than good enough.

I cannot wait until this technology spills over to the PC monitor world... it will make a HUGE impact for gaming.

edit: The above post is totally correct, although some people can see over 75 most people cannot.

Quote from garph :

No they can't, all the people saying they get that kind of constant FPS are just lying, even top of the range computers will drop as low as 20, 30 or 40FPS at the start and under heavy load.

Not true, my computer is 15 months old and aside from playing triple screen, single screen will never go below 60FPS which is what I lock it at...

Quote :

Can't wait to see the reaction you get from now on when you post and how many server ban lists you've just been added to. Way to make friends and influence people dumbass.

Why would you ban someone who purchased the game for saying something like that? It may have not been the most appropriate or nicest thing to say but it's not worth banning someone from multiple servers.

Thanks for the informative post.. If LFS is all that good to you maybe you should consider putting your money where your mouth is and buying the game for the minimal price the devs are asking for.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

Uhmmmm.... *looks through past posts* ...you.

When did I say that? Are you talking about when I said

Quote :

Would I recommend a TN panel as your only TV for watching movies, HDTV or blu-ray? No

Because I did not say I would not recommend an LCD for HDTV, I said I would not recommend a TN Panel as your ONLY TV for watching HDTV.

My first choice would be to recommend a S-IPS LCD panel if your using it as your main TV for HD or Blu-ray.

If that person could not afford a S-IPS panel I would still recommend a TN panel over a CRT.

Is there something wrong with that recommendation?

Last edited by wtf im nameless, Thu 3 Apr 2008, 00:00.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

When you stated that you would never recommend an LCD panel to someone who wanted to watch HD movies on, that was the point at which I decided to stop listening to your logic.

Are you talking about me, or Shotglass?

Quote from Shotglass :

ah yeah the "dictionary" for the illiterate and those aspiring to become one some day
both dictionary.com am webster online define hater as the noun to hate and as "person who hates" which as it happens to be is the only sensible definition

Have you heard of slang? Different people in different parts of the world use words differently... i'm sorry this offends you...

Quote :

so your facts are from a site for teenage boys to come up with their own version of the english language and vote on which definition is the most correct in their opinion... is that about what you meant to say with the quoted bit?

Teenage boys? Opinion or fact?

Quote :

you havent as such but the arrogance involved in labeling others haters always drives me up the wall

Apparantly it drives you up the wall just as much as TN panels do.

Quote :

surely trusting the guy who sells monitors is the better path than someone stating the physical reality that the geometry of a tn cell makes it impossible to display the same colour across the screen

Just like it's impossible for a CRT to be flicker free and display proper geometry along with all the other con's involved in that techology.. neither one is better but you seem to put one on a high horse while bashing the other... Did I say a TN panel can display the same colour across the screen? No.. I simply listed pro's and con's of both, where as you keep saying the same thing over and over about colour not being uniform which makes them "rubbish".

Once again, the FACT is that people in this very thread state that their TN panels look great to them... You cannot argue that fact... all you can do is disagree with them but that is nothing more than a personal opinion.

Quote :

oh and by the way... 2 and counting im starting to understand your preference for ud

I don't prefer ud over a real dictionary.. Are you telling me that you and your peers do not use any words in a way that is not in websters dictionary? I was simply showing you what the term hater means to me and my peers.

Quote :

have you ever considered that it is a simple unavoidable property of the helix geometry inside a tn crystal?

I understand that it is an unavoidable property of a TN panel... Do you understand your CRT has unavoidable flaws as well? Do you think the CRT is perfect? Do you disagree with the FACT that I can put test paterns on YOUR CRT that _WILL_ show you the flaws of it?

Quote :

no thanks i have read more than enough on sites which deal with the underlying principles and their implications instead of just stating a few cliff notes that do nothing to further the understanding of what were dealing with

If you really have read more than enough on display technologies you would have a sound understanding of how there is not one perfect type for all applications in the world. How you can continue to argue with me about the FACT that all display technologies have pro's and con's and that different people prefer different display types is what shows you're level of understanding when it comes to display types.

Quote from Jakg :

If were playing this game - what panel would my Xerox XM3-22wB use? It's very very rare according to Google and so I can't find out myself - although as it was cheap (£180 a year or so ago), i'd expect it to be a TN - when doing tests it looks ever so slightly darker at the top, and lighter at the bottom but it could just be my eyes.

From what I've read online the worlds first non-tn 22 inch was just released this last november for roughly $500USD. That being said, it should be a TN panel. What you are describing exactly what we are discussing... along with the lower number of colours it can display.

Good morning

Quote from Shotglass :

no thats a sourpuss

ok well thats the most popular definition on www.urbandictionary.com so if you want to go and correct them, you're more than welcome to. When I say hater, just translate it to sourpuss.. just like when you say "rubbish" I translate it to "garbage".

Quote :

there is no knocking down since tn panels are already bottom of the barrel

Sourpuss

Quote :

inferring that you and your craptastic little monitors are even remotle able to trigger such freeling in me is pure superbia on your end which is exactly why i hold you in very low regard for it

I'm not inferring that, you told me a couple posts ago that I obviously don't know what the word hate means, when the actual problem was that you didn't know what hater meant. So I showed you the different deffenitions from www.urbandictionary.com and www.dictionary.com ... If you want to hold me in a low regard because I try to speak fact and not opinion - you have every right to do so.. but I don't think I attacked you personally in any way so I don't quite understand why you would feel that way.

Quote :

so am i which is exactly why i tell them to avoid tns at all costs

When it comes to our qualifications and presentations people are free to believe who they like. It is my personal opinion that its in the better interest of the OP to consider the facts instead of propeganda/opinion but its their money and they are free to do either... it doesnt have any effect on me what so ever. I feel I have properly mentioned the pro's and con's of them both TN panel and CRT in this discussion.

Quote :

it doesnt even have to be a desktop background... most forums like this one have large unicoloured boxes which will look horrible in any decently sized browser window

Once again, that is your opinion, however, you are not the worlds judge of that and your opinion is not fact. Have you ever considered that some TN panels are better than others or that maybe you had experience with older or bad ones?

Quote :

all that money would be much better invested in a larger desk which looks and feels much nicer

Again, in your opinion.. what if someone has size limitations, or they like their desk? What if they already have a $5000 desk? Their situation could be different than yours.

Quote :

also you arent even arguing the point which is the shittiness of tns and not lcd vs crt
the smallish eizo ips panel i use at work is bloddy brillliant and i would have no reservations to buy one if i should ever find myself in a place where i cant find an adequate crt replacement for the one i currently use (and oled/sed still hasnt hit the market) but then again its the very best lcd has to offer unlike tns which fail at displaying the simplest of all images

Did you read one of the many good resourses on the internet when it comes to buying panels?
Here's one..
http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php
Maybe it will help you understand the difference in panels... because LCD panel types are different and rated by most in ways other than "rubbish" and "bloody brilliant"

Quote from Shotglass :

ok so far weve established that you either dont know what the word hate means or are just a total drama queen and that youre desperately trying to enlargen your epenis

hater:
A person that simply cannot be happy for another person's success.(or monitor) So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.(or monitor)

Hating, the result of being a hater, is not exactly jealousy. The hater doesnt really want (the TN panel monitor) to be the person he or she hates, rather the hater wants to knock somelse(the TN panel monitor) down a notch.
Susan: You know, Kevin from accounting is doing very well. He just bought a house in a very nice part of town. (or a TN monitor in this case)

Jane (hater): If he is doing so well why does he drive that '89 Taurus? (Bah, rubbish if he had half a brain he would have got a free crt which is far superior to even the almighty god himself)

Hate:
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.


Seems like a pretty fair word to use in this situation... I am far from a drama queen.. if I was I would probably use some sort of personal attack or tell you how my TN is BETTER than your CRT, which I do not think it is. I am not concerned about the size of my "e-penis" nor have I ever been. I'm just trying to help someone out with the purchase of a monitor.

Quote :

well for starters its a tn

this is why I called you a hater.

Quote :

the majority of windows users i know that use a solid blueish desktop background for one

Interesting, I myself do not personally know anyone who doesnt have a desktop background.. but you could very well be right.

Quote :

and yet it would be the only way to make a tns colour reproduction bearable

Once again this is why I called you a hater.

Quote :

great thats brilliant and works almost as well as pushing the tft back against the wall on its stand

except you don't have a pillar with a base on your desk... for people that like to be all wireless its nice because it gives them a lot more real estate on the desk. You can push your keyboard up and keep it where the base of your monitor would normally be but i'm sure you'll give me a personal opinion as to why that is such a useless idea.

Last edited by wtf im nameless, Wed 2 Apr 2008, 04:22.

Quote from Jakg :

Another Question - SoftTH has a "Multihead" option.

The site says this...

"For Direct3D 9 games, set useMultihead to 1. This can take advantage of multihead cards to copy frames faster if one of the seconday monitors is located on the same card as the primary one."

Which sounds great.

But is LFS a Direct3D 9 Game? I know it's DX8...

I saw that option my thoughts were that I wanted both side monitors in sync.. I dunno, when I load up SoftTH it says DX8 in the corners anyways so I don't think that option does anything. You can see lag on the side monitors if you really look for it, but i've never noticed it in a race yet and its very minimal anyways.

I dunno, not a lot of info on SoftTH, small community but its such a great program.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

But you still don't know what a shit monitor looks like.

It's only a bad panel if you're buying it for the wrong use...

Would I recommend a TN panel as your only TV for watching movies, HDTV or blu-ray? No

Would I recommend a TN panel if if someone came up to me and said I need a monitor that will display nothing but a full screen of solid red and has to look uniform and good? No

Would I recommend a TN panel to a videophile? No.

Would I recommend a TN panel to a graphics designer or profesional photographer? No.

Would I recommend a TN panel to someone who uses their PC for a few hours a week to surf the web and check e-mails? Yes

Would I recommend a TN panel to someone for someone who wants a good gaming monitor for a good price? Yes

Would I recommend a TN panel to play LFS? Yes

I don't sit there and look for the imperfections of each display type because I can show you images, paterns, colours or something on ANY screen that will show you it's imperfections... but why ruin it?

Look.. I'm into LFS because I love both cars and video games and the physics are unreal.. most people are here for the same reason. It doesnt have the flashiest graphics around.

Now, that being said.. when I sit down and actually get "into" a race.. you know, where you actually zone in.. your in second place.. last lap.. fighting for a first place finish.. palms are sweaty and you have a death grip on your G25.. your pushing your car to the limit and about to lose the rear end around that last turn.. if at that moment you're actually thinking that your TN panel is only displaying 262,144 colours than a TN panel is not for you.. but if I was a betting man I would say that is the last thing on most peoples minds is that..

If that one thing bothers you so much then you should be just as bothered by the sounds the game makes when your on dirt, or when you hit a wall... because those sounds are far from perfect.

Imagine this... 262,144 colours mixed up in a big pile. I'd like to see how many people on here could take that many colours and put them on a colour wheel without making any mistakes... also, colours and images are moving and changing so fast that you should not notice the brightness not being uniform. The only time I notice that is if im viewing a photo on my TN, which I don't really ever do because that's not what I bought it for.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, TN panels are not the best thing in the world for colour reproduction and uniformity but for most people they are good enough as long as they are not side by side with a better panel.

But i'm sure you guys will just tell me how awful they are.. you make them sound like they were put on the planet by the devil himself just to screw people like you over...

anyways im off to bed now.. good chatting with you all....

Last edited by wtf im nameless, Wed 2 Apr 2008, 04:05.

Quote from Shotglass :

hopeless...

Don't worry, I feel the same about you right now.. at least we can agree on that.

Quote :

do you know aynthing other than pc monitors (say video or picture formats) that is 5:4? => useless

I don't a PC monitor for anything other than PC.... I watch videos and view pictures on my 71 inch or 40 inch...which are both 16x9

Quote :

a monitor is built to be placed behind a keyboard which needs a table... waste of money to replace a perfectly good stand

I use my TV's as monitors as well, right now im sitting on my couch with my microsoft media center keyboard on my lap.. it works great... no table needed.

Quote :

does omnimount sell senses of humour too?

I won't lie, I did laugh pretty hard at that comment.

Quote :

the great unwashed rarely has any taste... and so far ive never seen anybody other than people i hold in very low regard who live on the other side of the atlantic use the word hater in situations where an emotion such as hate would be more than just exaggeration

In canada we don't use phrases like "rubbish", "mate", "cheers".. just because people overseas use them doesnt mean i would hold them in a low regard or hold it against them in any way. "Hater" is a word that some of us use and I don't see why you would hold someone in a very low regard because of it.

Quote :

the technology is supposed to display images... if it fails at that as terribly as tns do its not beneficial

I'm sorry but I fail to see as how this fails terribly at displaying an image.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHl_6tuuFc4

I can clearly make out everything on the screen, and when I play LFS it looks great. Yes, you can put one solid colour on my screen and point out the imprefetio, but in a real world senario who would do that? If I bought this monitor to display a full page of one solid colour that never changed I wouldnt have purchased a TN panel.

Quote :

which doesnt change the fact that they are funadmentally unable to do what theyre supposed to => rubbish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHl_6tuuFc4
I'll link this again so you can watch it again... My monitors are supposed to let me play LFS.. how you come to the conclusion they are unable to do so is beyond me.

Quote :

so how exactly is the size of your tvs important in this?
and how you can crtizise crts for their supposed flicker but be on the lookout for a plasma at the same time is highly illogical

It isn't, you just made a comment that I would not be able to see the paint job properly because of my TN panel... so I told you what i'm using for a PC monitor.

when I said..

Quote :

Just like I don't understand why someone would use a flickering CRT that takes up that much space and doesnt have proper geometry and is as sharp as a ball but it seems to suite your needs well. Granted I wish my TN panel had the colour uniformity/reproduction and refresh rate of your CRT.. but at the same time i'm sure you wouldnt say no if I could wave a magic wand over your CRT and elimate the chance of burn in, fixed your geometry issues, increased your sharpness and cut your weight and size by 90%.

I was not critisizing CRT monitors... When I made the above comment about CRTs I was sarcasticly doing so to make a point that I can critisize the imperfections of your monitor... just as you can about a TN panel. I really don't dislike them, they just don't suite my needs at the moment for any applications that I have. CRT's have some great qualities... as do all display panels... this is where we disagree.

Quote :

if that meant that i would have to build something to keep my head in the perfect position with binoculars to keep the veing angle at a minimum just to get a remotel acceptable image quality it tell you to stick your wand somewhere else

I'm not too sure where you're going with this.. but if you were to poll all TN panel users I would be willing to make a wager that less than 5% (and I think im being very very generous)

a) build something to keep their head in the perfect position.
or
b) use binoculars to view their monitor

Most people who wall mount their LCD PC monitor do so with a "cantilever" arm that can extend towards them when in use, but can be pushed back against the wall when not in use. This gives you a dual purpose desk for stuff like paper work/homework or maybe eating at the desk while they're reading a forum like this
http://www.omnimount.com/consu ... 9ea&CurrentId=2.1.3.3

Quote from thisnameistaken :

No. Nor do I particularly care. I am assuming that we both have working eyes, which is what actually matters. Did I tell you that I have particularly impressively-proportioned genitalia? No - because it's not relevant. But I do.

Usually I read a thread fully before jumping in into the middle of a conversation...

Usually if someones backround is relevant to the conversation it it would give them credibilty which in my opinion is relevant.

Considering I work with and have years of training on what is arguably the best quality displays that money can buy and have sold a combined total of thousands of CRT's, LCD's, DLP's, Plasmas and any other type of display on the market, that to me is relevant.

Considering I have many conversations daily with people that ask me questions and buy displays from me it seems relevant...

What your dick size has to do with this conversation howerver, is in my opinion not relevant.

Quote :

Five grand is a big deal. I'd make a contrast compromise for five grand too. However if one of them looked all shadowed at the top and bottom and the other didn't - that's a bigger deal. At least with a lower contrast ratio you've still got a visibly uniform picture. You don't get that on a TN panel.

Five grand is big deal? To who? You? Money is also something that is relevant... $100 to some people is a big deal too...

Quote :

If I was trying to sell someone a better screen I'd show them three similar colours arranged vertically - so they all looked the same on the TN panel. Then re-arrange them horizontally so they can see that they're actually completely ****ing different colours. If they still decide they want the TN panel then obviously colour doesn't matter to them.

colour doesnt matter to them is a big difference from "they don't know what they're doing / they're legally blind" Maybe you too are starting to understand my point.

Quote :

Actually I bought this monitor because I'm not required to do any creative graphics work any more, and I'm gaming less and less. I bought it so I can see lots of long lines of code at once. It's OK for that, but on the rare occasions that I do have to do any graphics work I pull out my old 19" Iiyama CRT and use that because it's impossible on this monitor.

(/sarcasm on) Right... that sounds like a smart solution for a smart person (/sarcasm off) Also I wouldn't consider anyone who does "creative graphics" work as an occupation an average user... that would be like an artist buying a brush from walmart... different applications for different people. Obviously someone in that type of field has a trained eye and would want something better when it comes to colour uniformity/reproduction.

Last edited by wtf im nameless, Wed 2 Apr 2008, 02:46.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Perhaps people who don't know what they're doing / are legally blind might decide they're nice. Anyone who sees a 226BW standing next to a similarly-proportioned Apple monitor will only buy the 226BW because it's cheaper, because it will look like shit by comparison.

lol... ok, did you read the part of the thread where I said I work with pioneer elite plasmas? Arguably the best plasma to ever hit the market.. so good that they priced them selves out of the market and are no longer able to make Plasma TV's after next year.

When I explain to people what contrast ratio does I show them side by side a 1080P pioneer elite plasma and an inexpensive Magnavox LCD monitor. To me its a day and night difference.. The black levels on the elite are amazing.. they are grey on the magnavox but you'd be surprised how many people say that they either cannot tell the difference in black levels at all or that to them they are so similar that they cannot understand how one is worth $5000 more than the other.

Quote :

Sure. Everybody's got a budget, and TN panels fit the lowest budget. There's a market for them because they're cheap. I don't for one minute believe people buy them because they think they look good, unless those people simply don't know what good is.

For the record: I bought mine because it was cheap.

People buy them because to them, they look good. Most people can see a difference between an upper end apple monitor and a samsung TN... but some cannot... most of the people that can tell the difference don't think the TN looks bad or "like shit" they just think that the apple looks better. I've sold hundreds of TN panels to people and when you put a nice digital picture on them, people would tell me they look amazing.. "ooohhh, look at that picture" but hey, I guess some of those people who were clearly both wealthy and driving must "be legally blind and not know what they are doing" where as you do. If you're that much better than those people you would not be buying a monitor just because its cheap.. you'd have boat loads of money and wouldnt care about the price.

If you spent close to $300 (or however much they sell for where you are) on a Samsung TN panel that you think looks like shit thats your own fault/stupidity.

Last edited by wtf im nameless, Wed 2 Apr 2008, 01:51.

Quote :

the majority of lcds arent either... the whole 22" 16:10 is a new development before that practically all tfts were a completely useless 5:4

Really? I didn't realize that 5:4 was useless... is this fact or opinion again? because man.. wow.. TN panels are rubbish.. and 5:4 is useless... It's hard to believe that the internet as a whole has been able to survive this catastrophy....

Quote :

i see the ability i just dont see the benefit

You don't see the benefit of wall mounting a flat panel monitor? Have you ever heard of omnimount?

http://www.omnimount.com

They are one of the MANY companies in the world that specialize in making brackets to hang flat panel displays on walls. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say since they have a 2 story 50,000 foot manufacturing plant that makes mainly flat panel wall mounts that the rest of the world can see the benefit.

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no of course crts have higher radiation levels but if it has been built in the last 10-20 years it will ne negligible and getting on an airplane once in your lifetime will probably give you a lot mr sv of radiation than any crt (and yes i absolutely pulled those numbers out of my ass... enjoy!)

I understand that you like to pull things out of your ass already. That's why I try to use facts... but hey, to each their own.

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ive yet to see a otherwise functional crt that cant be tuned to give more than acceptable geometry

I've yet to see a descent brand name TN LCD panel that the general public as a whole thinks is un-acceptable. There will always be haters.. most of them like pulling stuff out of their ass too... but they have every right to do so.

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youre obviously arguing without even understanding why tns are rubbish so i dont see any point in going on after this post

I understand why YOU think they are rubbish... My issue is your understanding of opinion and fact. I know they cannot display perfectly uniform colours or brightness and this bothers you... but to me your arguements remind me of someone living and dying by "There's no replacement for displacement" and just ignoring/trashing the benfits of technology...

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sure but when it comes to effects something youll notice all the time surely is quite a bit more problematic no?

Here's where you're missing the point... What YOU notice and what bothers YOU is not the same thing that bothers EVERYONE... there's nothing wrong with you prefering CRT's because TN panels bother you.

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point is its not a universal advantage
most audiophiles will tell you that the softness of analog vinyl plates is preferable and even among people developing video codecs ive met a couple that thing the blockiness of digital film is horrible comapred to a good analog signal

At least you said preferable in that statement, so you're on the right track. Everyone has preferances but you can't run around saying "CD's are rubbish" Don't you think that would be quite silly?

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why would anyone have unshielded speakers next to their pc?
speakers on a pc in 99% of homes will be either cheap rubbish pc speaker which are of course shielded or properly good ones which are far too good to place them with no spacial stereo width at all

It's just one thing that could effect a CRT.. i'm sure there are others that neither of us has mentioned. Different people have different applications.

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this sort of thing: http://www.autobild.de/ir_img/477515_6d39f64f7e.jpg
although chances are you wont be able to see the effect on your tn

I don't use my TN panels for surfing the web I'm talking to you on a 1080p 71 inch DLP right now or a 40 inch 1080P LCD, depending on what room im in. Once I can get a good quality plasma bigger than 71 inchs for under 6 or 7 thousand dollars I'll be talking to you on that.

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because ive already covered depth and any idiot will know that a crt is heavier

apparantly any idiot would know not to buy a TN panel or 5:4 panel too.. but hey.. at least your here to tell them they're all wrong.

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i dont quite understand your difficulty to understand that a monitor which is unable to display the same colour across its width and especially height is useless and doesnt even fulfill the most basic requirements for a display

Just like I don't understand why someone would use a flickering CRT that takes up that much space and doesnt have proper geometry and is as sharp as a ball but it seems to suite your needs well. Granted I wish my TN panel had the colour uniformity/reproduction and refresh rate of your CRT.. but at the same time i'm sure you wouldnt say no if I could wave a magic wand over your CRT and elimate the chance of burn in, fixed your geometry issues, increased your sharpness and cut your weight and size by 90%.

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i know lcds have benefits... tns however are just plain rubbish with some more rubbish on top

I guess I wasn't expecting you to stop pulling stuff out of your ass after you already have that much momentum... what can I say? At least you're good at what you do.

Last edited by wtf im nameless, Wed 2 Apr 2008, 01:54.